libya al green of ask cora lamers president of the alliances parliamentary assembly whether the intervention was justified spotlight coming up. oh yeah well welcome to the spotlight. today my guest in the studio is carl lambert. the world survey libyan leader muammar gadhafi is dead after nearly a year of violence he was captured. by furious crowd now the dictator is gone.

forced. the packing their bags. while the world speculates if the intervention was the right thing or not. should not support the just one side of. premature to withdraw now all of the good that the supporters are. so wouldn't have been reasonable and secure peace in the region for allied force. business to. the president of the nato parliamentary assembly karl. one of the key points of the current major strategy democracy in the world when libya's gadhafi started to show the rioting opposition the alliance decided to intervene in just a few months because. in the country taking almost no casualties the libya mission is now considered a model of a successful peacekeeping operation but many fear the alliance me assumed the role

of the world's policeman and start spreading democracy. designed. hello slammers it's a privilege to have you in the studio thank you for coming thank you for the invitation ok well first of all let's discuss the nato russian matters since you're here since you're in moscow well one of the problem is in relations between nato and russia is there is that list and she'll think yes that well they loaned it steps to deploy in this town defense in europe and russia feels that you know discussing it with moscow well russia has labeled it a quote a policy of established facts this is what how russia calls this may sound deployment this isn't to provoke growing tension between the two countries what would you say you feel that i don't sing so one of the intentions of our visit here at the parliamentary assembly of nato and of our very senor body of our assembly

is to exchange views and to get a better understanding of each other and so one very important point is missile defense we spoke about this with supply them and terry and and we have the impression that they understand where we will want to be intense based on the summit is specially our friends from russia were invited to get in gauge in this system i think we all agree that threats missile threats are increasing and that we should do everything to cooperate in building up their system against. dangerous missile threats and so i think it was a good invitation. for the russians to get in gauged in the system and that

means that we should cooperate and the first saying what i want to make very clear is that this is a. very defensive not aggressive system that is not directed against your country but you are in white it to cooperate in building up a system with coordination with sharing of daters with sharing of threat assessment to coordinate the systems we have and to lead this to a success at the benefit of us all letters as you understand you are not the first let's go official that are asking about the system and this is the answer i get all the time that this is a defensive thing it's not aimed against russia no you say that you know i have lots of understanding with moscow on this issue right but on the other hand when everyone open the papers we see this is a very dangerous thing russia has to counter react so is it just like a sort of

a propaganda thing like a war of words just for the press while you but when you sit over the table you have to add to standing or you feel that there is a list understanding of the russians maybe there is a little bit misunderstanding there is misperception and therefore we are here i think that is a good culture to be in a good in an open dialogue and to exchange for us to make clear what we want we face the same threats and saying it is good to cooperate as surf racing the same threats it is to bundle the efforts to bundle our power and i think in the meeting today maybe we got a little bit more access to our colleagues to make this clear and to tell them that it is better not to wait till we can agree on everything when we have the chance to

agree on anything and that means not waiting for command and control some seeing what is not possible. to decide no but to take care of coordination and of bringing together data this we can share and i think that is to be among our parliamentarians from nato countries from russia to bring a better understanding of that's what this system means there i've got a quote for you from the russian foreign minister sergey lavrov who is who is of course a diplomat he has always been very diplomatic and he has always been very moderate he's nothing like mr no you know he's very more you know listen to what he says he told a serb newspaper called the chair of the novice team i quote mosco will have to take military technical measures if the u.s. and nato continue to ignore its position and quelled so what lover of who is

a foreign minister saying that we will take military retaliation measures because u.s. nato is ignoring our position so no understanding are we think announce raise here. we don't want the arms race we want cooperation we live in the time when confrontation turns to cooperation and i give a good wise to your minister of foreign affairs for mr lavrov to accept the invitation to be in gauged and i think our principles are very clear that is transparency predictability cooperation and as much as russia is engaged in the system i think we can dispel all misperceptions and misunderstandings we have turmoil one of the arguments i know russian diplomats have is that if this system can the damage russia as nato claims then then then what proves it

if nato isn't ready to give legally binding guarantees to moscow this system cannot damage russia. this is not directed against russia that is directed against common threats may be stress against russia and against nato countries and if you will speak about. legally binding assurance i say this system is based on trust the system is based on confidence we can put it in writing huge you can get it written but a sink if you look for an international treaty that is it will last a long time but that is not what is necessary and i don't know what this purpose should serve we should build up a system based on confidence on trust and as much as you are engaged in the system you know that there is no reason for mistrust you mean trust is more important than

legal paper in such matters such a paper would be would be not worth the the nka that you spend on it is that tracing trust and confidence are more important than letters ok now now from the papers and from the first reports from your meetings with the russian i get that the russian side wants nato to provide noting legal guarantees that there is no threat from them to defense but also the exact parameters of the system that russia wants to possess it's the number of into septimus hours location speed range and so what they say they tell is not providing them with that information is it true and if it is is it because because like there is a sort of a distrust like a traditional distrust of the military of both sides towards each other i sync we are politically were very open to deliver all datas military has not militarily politically militarily if we want to build up such a system if you speak about complementarity of two systems now or to work to bring

them together i sing the most important point now is. to come to a common threat assessment to come to do data sharing and to coordinate the system so step by step we could and should develop the system and then we would solve the problem and that would dispel the misperceptions and the misunderstanding and the mistrust and if there is no confidence you cannot build up such a system and that was the spirit of response to do this in the spirit so it's not out of the question it is possible that if you feel trust you will provide russians will information sure here ok russian deputy foreign minister said i quote he was commenting on nato is out of the list to create a joint missile defense with russia i quote some countries are of the alliance say they cannot entrust their security to russia since the russian federation is not part of the collective system or defense we consider this logic old fashioned says

russian deputy defense minister do you agree that the relations between the two blocs russia well russia on the one side in nato are really a bit old fashioned. are you saying we should not think in blocks in blocks i think we are is the war zone nato is not of bloc nato is a is a political is a political military institution and organization we are not the bloc we are open for all who cooperate with us even for russia i remember and i told you oh and you all know that we have a russia nato council and on our parliamentary level we have a nato russia parliamentary committee and this is a format of twenty nine we speak on the same level we have a very open dialogue very open discussion our principle is transparency we're speaking about everything and i think that is

a spirit in which what we must solve this problem and creates this very important system of missile defense that is to the benefit. oh says karl lambert's president of the nato palm the veteran assembly spotlight will be back shortly after great so stay where you are will continue this interview in a minute to. wealthy british style. time to. go. to. market why not. find out what's really happening to the global economy

with max cons or the no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to kaiser report on our. welcome back to spotlight i'm al gore and often just a reminder that my guest in the studio today is carl lammers president of the nato parliamentary assembly and mr lammers well according to what you say according to your time and according that you sitting here in front of me the relations between notes and russia are really better than they used to be more openness more trust somewhat but for the last couple of years the russian representative to know the ambassador of russia mr dmitry rogozin who is a real hawk has always been a hawk and he still is a hawk so my question to you why did it take

a hawk in brussels to start improving its i know what about this is a robust and very well these nosedive. has a nice girl he has own she knows very well here's a home here as you actually and he knows very well what's going on in brussels here finds a very open atmosphere and i think he will agree to that what i say let us be. engaged together in the system let this work on the basis of transparency let this work based on trust and confidence and i think we are going forward to a peaceful future let's hope so let's talk about international relations the middle east some leaders of the syrian opposition they they they've asked me to after they saw what happened in libya they're asking nato to to to use the same scenario in their country do you think this may happen no i'm quite sure that will not happen

that is a totally different situation in syria than in libya there is no you on mandate there is no war and so that was very important for the libya operation of nato. no request from arab league and i think there is no planning in nato doing the same or something like this in syria a clear answer and the clear response from me says so so this is now so you giving to the russians to we are so sure that you are positive i give that almost the same answer that all of us a lot of. well well well this is not very common for diplomats and i know diplomats other posters a. russian observers russian newspaper russian experts they are see that taking sides in one side in the libyan conflict the side of libyan rebels in their war against gadhafi later has transparence the u.n. resolution which sanctioned only protection of civilians on the other hand nato

says no we were we were trying to protect civilians whenever do you have examples when the nato forces actually protect its. the villains from the oppositions for example during the siege of our series of. the nato operation unified protector worse your unmandated operation of nato and there was a clear intention to protect people against military attacks of got duffy and gadhafi troops to prevent people from this to prevent and to avoid civilian casualties and they're seeing nato was very successful doing this icing there was a clear mandate and we operated in the framework of this mandate so this was a very good operation and connects to a very good success that libya is free no and that is a good message for the people there now they have the opportunity to build up new

structures and i hope democratic structures rule of law democracy freedom of speech of religions of everything i think that is sport we intended to do and therefore i fully agree to that what nato made a you said you're a politician and you are not american which makes it easier for me to talk to you because americans there are sure that there is only one type of democracy american democracy europeans know there may be variations in democracy itself a question about libya. or the cool lynching of cadet the mass graves the barbaric action that we started television mean you both be sorry are you sure that the regime that will be replacing qaddafi's regime will be a democracy are you sure you will find in for the real cause or i hope that people all people especially the young people use know the new situation and the new opportunity to build up

a new structure and they are community in their country to. be open for better perspectives of their life i just came back from tunisia. you see young people open and and very. determined to go this way to freedom to peace and to a better future with good education. economic progress i think that we are asked. to help them if we are requested it is their revolution it is their decision how to go to the future but it is up to us and i speak now for the parliamentary assembly of data we are parliamentarians to assist them if we are requested in tunisia we were requested and they asked for help for assistance so we wait now when the first election that took place they voted for

a constituent assembly we will wait in egypt and then i will go to to cairo and after that to libya and we will ask people what do you expect from us they are all full of expectations for their future i'm certain that we can assist them what do you mean when we say we will ask people you like you deal with here hey here you put your blue. glasses sunglasses you go into the street and you are people are now we have no sunglasses you have open iris and we will speak to maybe in the a parliamentarian if they are elected to speak to young terrorism exactly people you know then probably a transition if there's even one turns up people. there are people the representatives yes there politician we speak with young people which we agree students we speak with journalists respect with we have people from the community or from the science from from all aspects and i think we are stem what can we do we will not give them our model of democracy we asked what we can do or how we can

help how we can assist them and if we are requested we can assist as we have parliamentarians from the eastern middle form of europe they made the experience of transformation from one model of society into another and so if we are requested we will help and we will assist as far as i know that germany was really supportive of the libyan operation including inside the bundestag of which you once were remember how would you explain that is it because they because germans. i generally sick and tired of wars i think that germany made a clear decision now to. enhance our efforts to build up new structures in the fost phase now of libya we will assist people there and they are saying we will concentrate to the phase now after the military operation has finished after that military operation is finished do you have fears not only used by the

parliamentarians the politicians within the eight the her theories that sort of an al qaida aryan to structures may come to power or like all like antica that the warlords are going to start clashing with each other i cannot exclude this so we have to be very cautious but i know that people are full of expectations for free future future and freedom and i think the best what we can do is now to go they are to be engaged to a very early stage of development and to do our very best that these countries develop in a free future the new york times pointed out that i quote shortages in the european airlines intelligence gathering your craft aerial refueling tankers and precision guided the kits for bombs proved the united states remains the backbone of any nato offensive and quelled would you agree that the libyan operation has exposed

the over dependence of nato on u.s. military force. i think we have to think of lessons learned it's what are some solace in the ability and there's a lesson and we speak about the lessons we speak about how to enhance capabilities in the whole framework of nato what we can do more you know we are all under the pressure of the economic crisis all over the walls all the countries. fact it and so i think i fully agree to the policy of smart defense of secretary general rasmussen how to reduce cost without losing the power to fight for security and to enable us to make such important military operations so that the money in this defense yes that means to bundle our efforts

to reduce costs to pooling and sharing and to develop. special capabilities for one country and the us us and by leading this together i think we have a good chance to reach our aim so common european defense is possible is a concept that you considering are you saying that it is. an intention to develop a european. capability in the defense issue as part of of nato capability. a libya also proved that quote some of the observers that the leaders of some medium sized powers can be overthrown from a distance without putting boots on the ground by using weapons fired from sea and from air like a remote controlled war right there isn't it create a favorable environment for selling another war to another country that wants democracy. no i don't think so you know things are so so so so you so you think

that that learning lessons from for what happened in libya would be rather positive a positive process then then a dangerous negative process yes lessons learned means what is the experience from leaving and what should we do especially under the aspect of pooling and sharing to develop their common capabilities to be able to master the challenges of the future while you were here in moscow you of course heard firsthand the russian response to the libyan operation and maybe not always very diplomatic do you think that after that in the present position the present state of mind russia would vote for a similar resolution on syria i don't think so. another lesson learned. and to have but to there is no situation that's a sort of vote for such

a resolution that is not plans and therefore i think there is no situation that russia must sing of such a result thank you thank you very much for being with us and being so frank and just a reminder that my guest today was carl clamored president of the nato parliamentary assembly and the third pullout from all of us here spotlighted will be back with more than a comment about going on in the world until then stay in our seat and take care thank you thank you. bringing you the latest in science and technology from the ground in. the future covered.

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